Transcript for this episode.
Allen Wolf:
Welcome to the Navigating Hollywood podcast. My name is Allen Wolf, and I’m a filmmaker and an author. You can check out my latest movie, The Sound of Violet, which is available wherever you stream movies. Navigating Hollywood encourages and equips entertainment professionals to live relationally and spiritually holistic lives. If you work in entertainment, visit navigatinghollywood. org to discover how you can get involved. Today, we’re joined by Robert Stillman, who is a film producer, entrepreneur, and investor. His first off-Broadway show, The God Committee, was made into a movie starring Kelsey Grammer, Julia Stiles and Janine Garofalo. He helped produce the award-winning play Freud’s Last Session, which launched productions in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago and Sydney. That show has been turned into a movie starring Anthony Hopkins as Sigmund Freud and Matthew Good as CS Lewis. Rob has also invested in Broadway shows such as A Gentleman’s Guide to Love and Murder Puffs and Amazing Grace. Welcome, Rob.
Rob Stillman:
It’s a pleasure to be here, happy to say, this is my first podcast I’ve ever done. So.
Allen Wolf:
This is historic, wow, and everyone listening or watching is here to witness this amazing occasion.
Rob Stillman:
So happy to be invited, so I appreciate it.
Allen Wolf:
Yes, absolutely, with a huge congratulations on Freud’s Last Session being turned into a motion picture. Was that always your plan? I had a plan.
Rob Stillman:
I got derailed. I ended up meeting with Carolyn Rosy Copeland, who’s a producer in New York, with an idea of my own, and she said I have this other project, maybe you’d like to look at it and it was the God Committee and that was basically 12 Angry Men kind of set in a hospital. The people that decide who’s going to get a transplant is called the God Committee. They had picked out a candidate, he was in prep, there was a heart on the way and then he dies in prep and then they have to reconvene and they have 45 minutes to decide who’s going to get the heart. That’s on its way and they all disagree on who should get it. That was kind of a really cool project and that obviously, like you said, got turned into a film with Kelsey Grammer and Jeanine Garoppolo. But I had nothing to do with the movie side of that. But then from there Mark St Germain had written the God Committee and then he invited me to a table read of Freud’s last session as soon as it was over. I was like I’d love to be involved in any way, shape and form and I’ll do whatever I can to help. And it eventually made it to Off-Broadway and ran for two years. Wow.
Allen Wolf:
That’s amazing.
Rob Stillman:
Pretty crazy for a small little play.
Allen Wolf:
Totally. And then you took it on the road, because I remember seeing it in Santa Monica and it starred Judd Hirsch, and Was it Tom Kavanaugh?
Rob Stillman:
Yes, Tom Kavanaugh, who was the lead in Ed, as you might recall. And they’re great, super great guys to work with and it’s been. That’s been interesting as well, Like everyone that’s been involved with Freud from New York to Chicago to LA. Like they find the material fascinating and they really enjoy it because it’s a two-hander, one act, no intermission, so there’s really nowhere to hide, and so I think actors enjoy that. It puts them even on a higher tightrope, if you know what I mean. And it was interesting too because we had the screening in LA in November at AFI for Freud’s last session of the movie and Judd Hirsch came to the film, to the screen.
Allen Wolf:
Oh, that’s great. Did he say something to you afterward?
Rob Stillman:
No, I saw him coming down the steps and I said, hey, I don’t know if you remember, but I was one of the producers on the play and I met you at Santa Monica. And he’s like oh yeah, very nice, very nice and just kept moving.
Allen Wolf:
So I mean it seemed like a huge get to get Anthony Hopkins to play the lead role of Sigmund Freud. How did that all happen?
Rob Stillman:
The way Hopkins came to the table is. Rick Nassita, who is one of the producers on the film, was at one time his agent and I guess he had gotten the script he shared it with. See, I can’t call him anything but Sir Anthony Hopkins, but he actually goes by Tony, right, right right, yeah, right. So it doesn’t feel right.
Allen Wolf:
So we’ll call him Tony. It will be very casual during this.
Rob Stillman:
I just want him to be comfortable. But he gave it to Tony, he read it and I think, as I recall, rick told me like the next day he was like I want to do this, wow, amazing.
Allen Wolf:
So which is pretty?
Rob Stillman:
you know that it gives someone a script and it’s like you’re lucky if you hear back from him in a month. But yeah, it’s like the next day he called him and said I really like it. And then Tony and Matt working together for like a year prior to filming starting, and he just shared like different texts and emails with me of like how much he was investing in the part Just notes and like ideas and like I think there was one email that Matt had printed out from Anthony that was like 12 pages long, like really just delving into it. So he really dug in, he really wanted to understand it, he really wanted to portray something with real depth and it was interesting to like and this is going to sound like name dropping, but we just had a screening in New York on Tuesday and Jim Gaffigan was there. He was just talking about how, like what came through and how the depth of the character that Anthony and Matthew good both display on the screen. He was really impressed with.
Allen Wolf:
Amazing. So they work together, building up to a year, and what was it like seeing that come to life on the set? It was very difficult.
Rob Stillman:
First of all, he’s 84 years old and I don’t care who you are at that age. It takes a lot of energy, a lot of memory, like all that stuff, to pull that off. Most of the of the film is in Freud’s office Intensive dialogue and the blocking, all the things that went into it and to pull it off I don’t think we were ever a day late. Everything was on schedule and Just a consummate pro. The locations expand, though, because it goes outside, because there’s kind of it’s kind of a past is prologue, kind of argument in a film that Both of their world views were shaped by. You know the experiences they had in real life. See us Lewis, his mother dying at the age when he was I believe he was nine and he got shipped to England and went to boarding school and just kind of like a new life in Ireland was a distant memory. And then Freud’s experiences with Antisemitism and being raised by a Catholic nanny, which is kind of interesting, but all those things kind of there’s flashbacks to that Within the film, that kind of informed how they came to their world views. Hmm, wow, it’s shot in Ireland. I Was just blown away by the crew. They were great and they were set up to set up, to set up. Hmm, in Ireland I guess you know they have that really good tax credit and but it’s still kind of fresh and that they’re still enjoying the circus like the crews are like, and so excited about. What’s going on and it’s not wrote and like drudgery.
Allen Wolf:
Yet oh right.
Rob Stillman:
That’s a a good thing.
Allen Wolf:
What first attracted you toward wanting to tell the story?
Rob Stillman:
I’ve always wanted to do Projects that were kind of maybe espousing a worldview that isn’t quite the norm and in edifying and challenging and maybe providing something to think about versus like how do I make a buck. It resonated with me on that level and here you know two people kind of having this philosophical argument and arguing and defending or Proposing whatever the worldview is. I loved it and it was a tough time because I think that was the end of 2008, going into 2009, and so To get that done in the midst of a very substantial recession was not easy Amazing and the other thing I learned and this is for if we’re gonna talk about navigating Hollywood Never, ever, ever assume the person you’re talking to Won’t potentially invest in your project. You never know and. I just remember I was, someone asked me what I was working on, and then back in my head I’m like I don’t know why I’m saying this, because this guy’s not.
Allen Wolf:
You’re not gonna do this.
Rob Stillman:
And I just did my little elevator pitch and he goes I’ll do two units. I was like what? Okay, you know. So it’s like right there. It’s like you know, that was on me. It’s like Kind of being a jerk for thinking I knew something I didn’t know, you don’t know, hmm, never, be afraid to talk to anybody never be afraid to pitch and always be ready to pitch and never assume your pitch Is a waste.
Allen Wolf:
I completely agree with that. I had a similar experience with my first film in my sleep, where I just got had so many meetings with people that by the time a person wanted to meet with me, I didn’t know much about this person and I just didn’t think it was gonna turn out to be anything. And so I I just was like, okay, I’m just gonna do it, low expectations. But it turned out to be the largest investor In the film. So you’re right, you just you can never assume, just always go in with the best.
Rob Stillman:
But it’s, it’s hard to keep that attitude up because it is grueling, racing funds to your point the most, the most damaging to your Psyche too, is the people that you think. Like there’s a home run, I’m like I’m gonna walk in. I don’t, I’m fine. Like I can’t, I’m just, I’m just waiting to see how many zeros are gonna be on this check. No, that’s a real kick in the you know what like oh, totally.
Allen Wolf:
Oh my gosh yeah completely been there, absolutely, and even there was a phase for me where people would Make you think that they’re actually heading in one particular direction, in a very positive direction, and then just turn it. So it’s just, you never know until Not that you have the check, but it’s been deposited in the bank and cleared then you know it’s real. I meet people all the time who say, yeah, I have these people that they’re saying they’re gonna invest in in my film or whatever, and I say, well, I have they written a check? Has it cleared the bank? And it’s hard as a filmmaker because you want to get excited about oh, this person says they’re gonna invest, but it’s very easy to say you’re going to invest. It’s not easy to write the check and have it clear. So I I totally hear you about that part of the journey.
Rob Stillman:
Let’s face it, we’re not working for Dreamworks, we’re not Steven Spielberg or who whatever big-name producer or Actor, a talent or whatever you got behind you. We don’t have those things. So it’s gonna come down to kind of grit and perseverance and Just trying to create the opportunity that You’re gonna need and your project is gonna need just to move forward. And it’s just, and maybe sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and realize maybe this doesn’t have the value proposition to move on right close that door and and just accept it, but that’s hard to do.
Allen Wolf:
I mean, that’s oh completely and I must say Everyone has the exact same battle, because even you mentioned Steven Spielberg. Even Steven Spielberg is Challenged at finding finances for his movies. Like you think that level, it just suddenly goes away. But it doesn’t. It just changes. But everyone is always looking for funding. Maybe it’s slightly easier for someone like him, but everyone’s playing on the same playing field.
Rob Stillman:
In my case, and point because I’ve been working on a film called don’t stop me now, which is an adaptation of a UK documentary called the boy whose skin fell off, and I’ve been working on it. It’s a passion project and people like you’re still working on that. I’m like, well, hey, george Lucas worked on red tails for 21 years, and so I’m like, if it took him 21 years To do something, why do I think I’m gonna do something in, you know, a year and a half to two years or whatever? Yeah then you kind of look back and you look at like all the little things that had to happen to slowly advance. And that’s just kind of what it’s about is to just try and make a little bit of progress every day or every month or however that is, and then eventually it seems like the timing will catch up to you and you, you will have set up all the dominoes. And then there’s that next event that makes the dominoes fall. And that’s what they did with Freud, with. You know. They kept working in the background. They came to us like eight years ago but you know, to match credit, he kept Plotting along and working along and did a rewrite and did all you know, all this work so that when Anthony Hopkins was handed the screenplay who’s handed the best screenplay you could get he liked it. And then when Anthony said I’m on board, there goes the dominoes. There’s so much work we do that you’re not sure if it’s valuable or Whatever. But when you look back over time you’re like, okay, that that’s what got this to there and that’s there, and here we are now. So it’s it’s, it’s interesting.
Allen Wolf:
Very true. I love that perspective and it’s interesting because I’ve heard Anthony, tony, sir Anthony, talk about his own spiritual journey. That seems to kind of mirror what the characters are going through in the movie. Did you experience any of that from him and his own feedback?
Rob Stillman:
Yeah, I did, and when I think when I first approached about the project, you know, I was like looking at where he was at in a personal space, and then there was an article where he talked about, like he goes, hey, I’m 83. I realized I’m nearing the end of the road and and so I think on these things and but he’s very, very comfortable with the idea that he’s near the end of his time on this earth. To be comfortable In that space, you either have to have a blissful ignorance Most people don’t have or you’ve grappled with the questions and thought about it and and have come up with an idea of of what that means and where you’re going, and being comfortable with the idea of what the next step of that journey is going to be. And I think that’s where he’s at. He’s kind of made peace with it. I think one of the things that really resonated with him was this idea that we need to have conversations and we need to talk through our beliefs and we need to even speak with people we don’t necessarily agree with, and the idea of Canceling and shunting people off and saying that we’re talking to us is a really bad idea and that we’re better, as a whole Talking with each other and talking through things and understanding each other, then we would be to cutting each other off, and I think that’s part of it as well.
Allen Wolf:
I think that’s brilliant. I mean, that’s a very modern idea of just, instead of engaging, just cutting off and going into your corner. And it seems like as a culture, we’ve experienced the repercussions of that and how much, how divided we are as a nation, as a world. So I love that your film really encourages people in a different direction.
Rob Stillman:
I think anybody coming from either side would be like I’d like to see my side just crush the other side. But I think in this you have two scholars who are very respectful and they argue, but at the end of it all they’re going to part as friends and with a deeper understanding of each other, a deeper respect for each other, and I think we’re all better for it, and I think it’s something we can all model in our own lives. It’s like earlier when I said I just assumed this guy was never going to invest. Well, how often do we assume like, well, a person’s never going to understand her, I don’t even care what that person thinks, or that person’s just wrong. And it’s like how do you know that you don’t know that, even talking to them and working through what, why they believe, what they believe, maybe you’ll learn something. Yeah, instead of just assuming you know it all.
Allen Wolf:
That’s right, I love it. I love it. You’ve invested in off-Broadway shows and Broadway shows. What draws you to a production?
Rob Stillman:
Sometimes it’s the invite like puffs and this is going to be bad. It’s really bad. But I never read any of the Harry Potter books, is that? I mean? I don’t know if that’s a sin or a crime, but but here’s what I did. Know All my kids did and my wife did, and they loved them. And so I got approached and I was like, well, if you guys are looking for funding, can is there a preview? And so I sent my experts, which was my wife and my kids, and my wife said this is the funniest thing she’d ever seen. She was embarrassed by how much she laughed, she was crying, and so I was like okay, well, then I’ll do it. And that turned out to be a great investment. So that was one method. Now, amazing grace, I actually was approached at my brother’s mother-in-law’s funeral, which you know, I bet you know how it is. People you get, the venue doesn’t seem to matter, but they, oh, you’re in the film or you’re in the camera. I have this friend with an idea, like, okay, Right, and so this guy comes up to me and he’s like I have this friend who’s kind of written this musical and it’s the true story of John Newton who wrote Amazing Grace, would you be interested? And honestly I was like who’s this guy? And he’s like always a retired cop. Okay, I’m sure, why not? And the music, music story. Everything was amazing.
Allen Wolf:
And.
Rob Stillman:
I was blown away by it and I was like, okay, well then, you need help. I’m not going to take this to Broadway I don’t. I wouldn’t even pretend, I know how to do that. But Carolyn, who I met, I took Amazing Grace to her and I said listen, do you think there’s anything here? We went to a preview it was actually in the basement of the Empire State Building and then she came on board and really was the person that got it to Broadway. Honestly, how it’s not still running today, I don’t know. It was a great show, it was amazing, but for whatever reason, the critics didn’t like it. So it is what it is.
Allen Wolf:
What was that like? Just dealing with that?
Rob Stillman:
It sucked, but that’s the nature of the game. I mean, you know, even Freud’s last session it’s gotten good reviews, but to say they’re rave, you know we’ve gotten some negative ones and I just feel so much, actually feel so much more for the director and the actors who they’re pouring their heart and soul into it. I mean, I love it and I’ve put plenty of work into it, but I feel like they’re even even more so exposing themselves and putting themselves even more out there and it’s just like you know, it is what it is. You know, you kind of just birth this thing and you give it to the world and and then what happens happens, and it’s not easy. That’s probably, to be honest, the hardest part, because you want everyone to love it the same way you do, and it’s just Never gonna happen that way. I think there’s there’s elements of the film that certain critics are just they’re not gonna get passed. I think some of that is related to the discussion itself, and so the one thing I will say that we’ve gotten in every review is that Matthew Good and Anthony Hopkins performances are just Mesmerizing, and they all acknowledge that, like the actors are great. So, Wow, we’ve captured that, and so I think, for the, for the critics and for the audience that is gonna, you know, be attracted to this content to begin with, they’re gonna love it. On that score, I think we’ve, you know, hit a home run, which is great.
Allen Wolf:
You chose a story where there are a lot of Spiritual questions that are posed. What has your own spiritual journey looked like?
Rob Stillman:
a lot like that. You know really, I was raised in Not quite a fundamentalist evangelical household. We’re close, but not not not quite that far into the fundamentalist camp, more of an evangelical. And I think as anybody grows up and they mature, they’re like how much of this is something I inherited and how much of this is something I fleshed out for myself. One of the most powerful things that shaped me was I went on a missions trip to El Salvador and it became clear to me on that trip and I was in college that I don’t think I was in the right space and I don’t know that I kind of washed away everything I grew up with and Exposed me to, I would say, a more real relationship with Christ and just like realizing that I needed to repent and that was a big part of my journey I just feel like there is an intelligence to the universe. That’s undeniable. So for me it’s just. I just believe that there’s a God and His son walk the earth, die for me I and in that process absolve me of my sin.
Allen Wolf:
So I believe that that’s, that’s what I believe and how did that idea Become a reality in your life?
Rob Stillman:
I think when you go through the process of kind of kicking the tires At some point you got to get in the car. If I’m gonna believe this, then it kind of needs to inform Everything you do and I’m and Alan, I am by no means perfect. I don’t want to put myself on any type of like pedestal. I screw up all the time and From the outside looking at, I’m sure people will be like dude, you’re an outrageous hypocrite. But when your standard is perfect, you’re gonna look like a hypocrite sometimes and so my goal is to be better than I was yesterday, but at the end of the day, I can’t be good enough, and so that’s why Christ had to die for us, because if we could do it on our own, he wouldn’t have needed to do that.
Allen Wolf:
How has your faith impacted the projects you’ve chosen?
Rob Stillman:
There’s just things I won’t do, you know. I’ve been approached with projects and I’m Read the script and I’m like yeah, no, that’s, even if it was a no-brainer, gonna make a ton of money like no. I Remember I was at a film finance convention. They had a panel and they had people come up there. How did you get your film funded? And I won’t say names because then you’d figure out the project. But they’re like oh X and a bikini fighting sharks and I was like I don’t Ever want to do that I mean, and to be fair, I do have the luxury of not having to do that. You know, I wouldn’t want to cast dispersions on someone that like, if you got to feed your family, I hey. But at a certain level there’s just things I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t want to do and I wouldn’t do and I’d be embarrassed to have my name I don’t, you know. So for me, at the end of the day, I want my kids to see my credits and be like okay, those are interesting things that were Projects that would make people think through, like the moral and ethical dilemmas of like the transplant, or you know John Newton and his journey from slave trader to abolitionist, and you know CS Lewis and Freud talking about their faith or lack of, and so to me that’s, that’s the kind of stuff that’s interesting to me, and luckily I have the freedom to kind of pursue those things.
Allen Wolf:
You’ve been married for 30 years. Amazing, in Hollywood math that’s like 90 years, you know, just so you know. But how have you stayed relationally healthy for 30 plus years?
Rob Stillman:
I have four kids, 24 through 16, and a wife. That’s amazing. She’s encouraging. She has more faith in me than than I probably. Well, that I surely deserve, and she’s also kept me grounded. We’ve always been dedicated to each other and Wanting to do the work that we need to do to to have the marriage we both want to have. That’s great.
Allen Wolf:
At the end of your life, what kind of legacy would you like to leave behind?
Rob Stillman:
I want my kids to be proud of the man I was. They can look back on the choices I made, the commitments I honored. You know, having been married for 30 years Just showing the the value of Honoring the commitment you make, I think there’s an element of pride that that you know we want to be remembered beyond and I hate to tell it to most people the average person. We’re gonna be forgotten pretty quick and even if you are a big deal, in any field. I’m not so sure that anything beyond Having made a positive impact is really is valuable. It was interesting. I saw a wildly successful maybe been a billionaire some business guy needs, like you know, you can have all the success in the world, but if your kids don’t want to be with you when they’re adults because I would consider that a failure and and I I 100% feel the same way and luckily so far they enjoy being with us and and it’s precious when it happens that’s probably one of the things I’m most proud of is just to be in a great close, healthy relationship with all my kids.
Allen Wolf:
That’s amazing. Thank you so much for being my guest, Rob. Thanks for sharing your insights and your journey. I really appreciate you being here. It was such a pleasure if you work in entertainment, check out the complimentary courses and other resources available at Navigating Hollywood org. Please follow us and leave us a review so others can discover this podcast. You can find our other shows and transcripts, links and more at NavigatingH ollywood org. I look forward to being with you next time.